Combat Trainer -- QUESTIONS

SteveBlay
SteveBlay
edited March 2018 in APT Questions

Our new COMBAT TRAINER will be launched on April 1st, 2018.

Once launched, this thread will be used for questions and comments about the tool.

Comments

  • pgearan
    pgearan

    Just wanted to bump this thread now the the Combat Trainer has launched. There is another thread for specific new scenario suggestions, but if there are any questions or comments please feel free to add those here.

  • Vagr
    Vagr

    You have 6 choices on Combat Training home page.
    From Combat Trainer page I should be able to switch to other choices.
    Like if I practice the "Flop Fundamentals" then switch to "River Strategy"
    As of now I have to go to "My Training">"Combat Training" and choose the other options.

    Dont you think?

  • elisseose
    elisseos

    @SteveBlay said:
    Our new COMBAT TRAINER will be launched on April 1st, 2018.

    Once launched, this thread will be used for questions and comments about the tool.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    @Vagr said:
    You have 6 choices on Combat Training home page.
    From Combat Trainer page I should be able to switch to other choices.
    Like if I practice the "Flop Fundamentals" then switch to "River Strategy"
    As of now I have to go to "My Training">"Combat Training" and choose the other options.

    Dont you think?

    Yes, I agree. We'll work on that. At the least you should be able to easily get back to the main Combat training menu.

  • dodid
    dodi

    I played the JJ Combat Training scenario and it was amazing.
    The only improvement I would suggest are these two:
    1) an option to rotate through the different villains so that the opponent isn't always the same style
    2) an option to rotate through different positions to learn the different best decision depending on early, late and middle.
    Thank you to all the APT developers, I'm a new member and a newby poker player and I can't properly express to you how wonderful the training is on this site.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    @dodi said:
    I played the JJ Combat Training scenario and it was amazing.
    The only improvement I would suggest are these two:
    1) an option to rotate through the different villains so that the opponent isn't always the same style
    2) an option to rotate through different positions to learn the different best decision depending on early, late and middle.
    Thank you to all the APT developers, I'm a new member and a newby poker player and I can't properly express to you how wonderful the training is on this site.

    Yep - we are working on this. If possible, please look at my questions to users on the other related thread and let me know your thoughts on how to implement this by responding on the other thread.

    https://www.advancedpokertraining.com/poker/forum/discussion/comment/1347#Comment_1347

    Allen

  • mrfleming
    mrfleming
    edited April 2018

    In the Tournament Tactics trainer, the opponent's range does not include the possibility of Jenny Lee having a straight draw by holding for example QJ.

  • SteveBlay
    SteveBlay

    @mrfleming said:
    In the Tournament Tactics trainer, the opponent's range does not include the possibility of Jenny Lee having a straight draw by holding for example QJ.

    It does in fact. I just checked her pre-programmed range and she will be holding QJs some of the time.

  • mrfleming
    mrfleming

    Thanks, Steve; In that trainer, I click "advice" and then "show range" for Jenny, and look at "straight." It shows 0%, meaning I think she has a straight 0% of the time. Perhaps thinking about that straight possibility is just too complicated or remote?

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    edited April 2018

    @mrfleming said:
    Thanks, Steve; In that trainer, I click "advice" and then "show range" for Jenny, and look at "straight." It shows 0%, meaning I think she has a straight 0% of the time. Perhaps thinking about that straight possibility is just too complicated or remote?

    Ah, now I see what you are talking about. The show range button is describing what she has RIGHT THEN, not what she could possibly draw. So inside there, it shows the % of the time she currently has "nothing", which is what QJ would be given a KT8 flop.

    For anyone who has never used this show range feature, I'm going to walk you through what @mrfleming is talking about.

    On the flop, first push the advice button I have circled in the image below. When you do that, your equity against your opponents' range will show up, as well as one possible approach you might take at this point (the advice is discussed a lot on other threads - it is just a suggestion, not a rule). In addition to your equity, a "SHOW RANGE" button will also show up and I've circled that also.


    image

    Next, Click the SHOW RANGE button and you will be given a list of the assessed likelihood (by the game) of your opponent currently holding a certain range of hands. Again, this is a big estimate and as you get better at estimating, good players can often disagree or have other opinions - this is very much a "reasonable estimate". This is what you will see once you click SHOW RANGE for Jenny Lee:


    image

    So now you can see that Jenny is holding a wide range of possible hands given the previous action. If you knew where she fell, you'd know what to do. But of course you don't, which is why we created this combat trainer, because it is a challenging hand. Next, if you click on the "more" button I've put a red box around in the above image, you'll get a more comprehensive list of some of the specific hands she may have and it will look like this:


    image

    As you can see, QJs, which takes into account her straight draw, is listed there.

    This show range tool is a very valuable tool, and sadly I think a lot of people don't even know we have it because it either takes watching the instructional videos or digging around to find it. If you didn't know this feature existed, I would strongly recommend taking a hour or so and watching some of our instructional videos (located at https://www.advancedpokertraining.com/poker/videos.php) because we've been developing this site for almost 10 years, and we tend to add almost everything that our users request. So there is a ton of stuff here that you may not know about.

    I hope this explains things clearly @mrfleming. If not or if you have other questions, just ask!

    Allen

  • mrfleming
    mrfleming

    Thanks for all the time you put in on this excellent answer

  • monkeysystem
    monkeysystem

    I'd like to see a tournament tactics scenario that focuses on short stack play from the big blind. Warlock and I have been discussing similar situations. Let's say you're in the BB with 17bb behind. You are not yet in a money bubble. Blinds are about to escalate in a couple of hands. Villain has you barely covered and leads with 2bb. There is no more action. You look down at 44. Your decision depends upon your read of Villain. Do you shove now or execute a stop and go play? Or do you 3-bet to 5x or something? Do you just lay it down? On the stop and go play you have another decision based on your read of Villain and the flop texture. Do you donk shove or give up? We could also try this trainer with a trash hand like 93o.

    For this to be effective we would need to be able to try different Villain types.

    This exercise forces us to use the ICM tool and the shove-fold tool. It's also good exercise for other tools like ICMIzer, Flopzilla, and CardRunnersEV.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    @monkeysystem said:
    I'd like to see a tournament tactics scenario that focuses on short stack play from the big blind. Warlock and I have been discussing similar situations. Let's say you're in the BB with 17bb behind. You are not yet in a money bubble. Blinds are about to escalate in a couple of hands. Villain has you barely covered and leads with 2bb. There is no more action. You look down at 44. Your decision depends upon your read of Villain. Do you shove now or execute a stop and go play? Or do you 3-bet to 5x or something? Do you just lay it down? On the stop and go play you have another decision based on your read of Villain and the flop texture. Do you donk shove or give up? We could also try this trainer with a trash hand like 93o.

    For this to be effective we would need to be able to try different Villain types.

    This exercise forces us to use the ICM tool and the shove-fold tool. It's also good exercise for other tools like ICMIzer, Flopzilla, and CardRunnersEV.

    Great suggestion.

  • SteveBlay
    SteveBlay

    Thank you all for the great suggestions -- we are working on a new version of the Combat Trainer (and some new scenarios) and should have that soon.

  • 1warlock
    1warlock
    edited April 2018

    2 things I noticed about the player in the pre-flop training module (pocket J's): 1st, he doesn't have a balanced check-range (and therefore no check-call or check-raise range). He only checks weakness. When he leads he has AK or TP+. When he checks he has less than top pair. This would make him exploitable with any 2 cards in position. 2nd, he is only 4-betting extreme value and that looks like AK, KK+. Calls are AQ and pairs QQ and below. Again, you could exploit this with any 2 cards in position. Any way to give him a bit more robust strategy?

  • buzznbruceb
    buzznbruce

    In other training modes, one is able to get advice when the advisor disagrees and also to see the advice of all advisors - but I do not see this as an option in combat trainer modes. Have I missed how to set this up in combat trainer mode or is that not an option - seems to me it should be - I really like to see the advice of all trainers because sometimes there is significant support for my approach among the entire group even if not with the particular advisor.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    Once you are in the Combat Trainer, click the top left button, Change Advisor. Just select show summary of all advisors and you'll be set.

    Allen

  • stormbills
    stormbill

    @pgearan said:
    Just wanted to bump this thread now the the Combat Trainer has launched. There is another thread for specific new scenario suggestions, but if there are any questions or comments please feel free to add those here.

    I ve just started to use CT and I am not getting how this could improve my game if it does not advice my plays or does not says what I am doing wrong. I mean, the report that it shows after finishing the session is not enough in my opinion because it only says what was the results of my plays. And we know that we are not supposed to play result oriented because the good results come from the right decisions, in long term.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    @stormbill said:

    @pgearan said:
    Just wanted to bump this thread now the the Combat Trainer has launched. There is another thread for specific new scenario suggestions, but if there are any questions or comments please feel free to add those here.

    I ve just started to use CT and I am not getting how this could improve my game if it does not advice my plays or does not says what I am doing wrong. I mean, the report that it shows after finishing the session is not enough in my opinion because it only says what was the results of my plays. And we know that we are not supposed to play result oriented because the good results come from the right decisions, in long term.

    Hi Bill - That's not really the point of the combat trainer. The whole idea is based on Doyle Brunson's observation in Super System published 40 years ago that the only real way to get good at poker is to play it a lot and learn to recognize situations. That's actually the entire basis for our site. Basically, no one can tell you the best way to play any particular situation. If you've ever read the 2+2 forums, you'll see arguments left and right on almost every hand posted. So trying to learn how to play one very specific deal isn't really going to help much. You have to learn how the cards tend to fall and what types of hands it takes to win, manage the pot, etc.

    The point of the combat trainer is that these are very common sticking points in most players' games. But you may only see them once or twice in a long session. So it would take years to see them enough times to get good at recognizing how the board affects outcomes, position, etc. and in the process you would lose a bunch of money. Here, you could possibly sit down and play the same general situation (not specific deal) 200 times in an hour. Over that time, you would start to recognize patterns, see what tended to work and what strategies just don't work without losing money in the process. It's designed to give you the chance to experiment and learn without emptying your wallet. There is no advice our computers could give in one situation that could possibly be as valuable as just the act of playing the hands yourself and learning what works and what doesn't. When you are playing the same general scenario hundreds of times and seeing what works, that isn't being results-oriented because in this case the scenario is staying reasonably constant. Yeah, the cards vary, but the scenario is roughly the same. So you can start to learn some really important things:

    • What types of hands does my opponent generally have when they behave in a certain way?
    • What level of hand in general does it take to win from this situation?
    • What lines tend to cause me to lose huge pots?
    • What lines tend to manage the pot appropriately for the situation?

    None of these are things that computer-based advice could really help you learn. It's not something that could be memorized either. It's just about getting a feel for the game and feeling comfortable with these common, but challenging, situations. There's no other system like ours that gives you the opportunity to learn this way.

    I hope that explains why we don't want to make advice the focus of the Combat Trainer.

  • azlanjpa
    azlanjp

    Thanks Allen & Steve for creating an awesome tool such as Combat Trainer. It has been a great tool for practicing different scenarios.

    Few suggestions with ideas -

    1)Is it possible to make Combat trainer customizable, where the user can enter a particular scenario using a list of options similar to configurations options under practice mode? So, in this case it would be not just entering the hand types and position to be dealt for the user(HERO), but would also have options to enter the number and position of the opponents and their respective hand types for creating a new scenario.

    2) In addition to the New opponent option to randomize stack size, is it possible to add stage of the game(Early, Middle, Bubble, ITM, Final Table) as an option? Also maybe an option to choose stack size for HERO? It will then help create situations such as short stack in the bubble, or large stack in the bubble or large stack in ITM and other variations.

    Thanks,
    JP

  • azlanjpa
    azlanjp

    Any thoughts on the above ideas?

  • SteveBlay
    SteveBlay

    While I can't promise a totally customizable combat trainer, I think you will LOVE the new scenarios launched by Kenna James today. The scenarios are Short Stack on the bubble, Medium Stack on the bubble, and Big Stack on the bubble. Here's the link (or you can just find them in the Combat Trainer):

    https://www.advancedpokertraining.com/poker/combat-trainer.php?category=6

  • monkeysystem
    monkeysystem

    I think a cool scenario for a combat trainer would be one where you have to hand-read a villain who has check/called you to the turn and river.

    You 3-bet in position a fairly loose opener with the bluffing/balancing part of your 3-bet range. The bluffing/balancing part of your 3-bet range is hands that are not good enough to call, but can become draws or baby pairs that can flop a set.

    Villain flats. The flop turns your hand into either some kind of draw, a set, or two-pair. Villain then check/calls you on the flop. He checks the turn. This is where your decision points in the combat trainer start.

    You would set up the trainer by giving villain a mixture of bluff catchers, draws, and even some air. Villain may also be slow playing a monster.

    Villain might take the betting lead if you show weakness by checking back the turn. He also sometimes grabs the betting lead on the river even if he check/called you on the turn. He also sometimes checks the river.

    If he checks the river and you bluff, you have to tell a believable story, and not undersize the bet.

    If he checks the river and you value bet, you have to size it so you don't fold out your value.

    If he bets the river, that puts you to a decision and tests your hand reading too.

  • sarcasmes
    sarcasme

    HI apt comunity

    in some situation advisor say to fold preflop butwhen i put a range in flopzilla i have the odds for call.

    exemple:

    my pott odds is: 21%

    when i put tight range on flopzilla i obtain 23.6% (with a tight range normally its a call because i nedd 21%)

    and when i look the player it s two loose player it s increase my % for call.

    for the utg i put :7%

    for the call MP i put: 10%

    and it say all the advisor fold.

    thank s for the answer

    have a nice day

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay

    Hi, I don't think this is a topic for the combat trainer suggestions thread. Perhaps post this scenario to specific hand questions and you will get more responses. I know that the APT advisors consider a lot of factors in making their decisions and it is not going to be identical to flopzilla. You will see differences, and this will mostly occur on close decisions like this one.

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