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Another interesting hand against the bots

edited August 2018 in Specific Hand Questions

Playing $1-$2 on KGB.

In the SB with Qh-10s and it folds around to me. I raise to $6 and Stokely bot calls me from the BB. So $12 in the pot going to the flop.

Flop is 7c-7s-5s and I C-bet for $6. Stokely bot calls. $24 in the pot going to the turn.

Turn is the Kc. I still have air but fire a second barrel for $12 and Stokely bot calls again. $48 in the pot going to the river.

River is 8h. I have air and cannot figure to win without bluffing. So I fire a third barrel for $36, Stokely bot folds and shows A-8 offsuit.

So the bot calls two bullets with ace high and no draw on the flop and turn, but then folds the river after it at least pairs its 8????

How does that make sense?


  • 1warlock
    edited August 2018

    I honestly have no answers for this one, other than it may have to do with the AI's learning process. I don't know how adaptive these bots really are but its possible it may have learned enough of your triple-barreling frequencies to pick something up. From a theoretical standpoint this hand makes no sense so all I can come up with is that the bot may have made an exploitative fold on the river.

    From a theory perspective, I can see flatting your open with A8o as a mixed strategy but I'd personally prefer a 3-bet if it had data on you that you were opening say 75%+ of hands from the SB. After the flat, I'd call a c-bet here with A-high, a blocker to the most likely straight draws and a backdoor straight draw. I don't know the suits of the A8o. Did the bot hold a spade, especially the As? The call on the turn was questionable but not terrible either. You could be holding all sorts of stuff, from absolutely nothing to a spade draw to 9/10 to Kx to Ax. Kx in position probably checks back to pot control and to induce a bluff from bot on river, IMO anyway. Once bot made the call on the turn and made 2nd pair, top kicker on the river, I think this is a snap call. The only hands you are betting for value are 7x, 9/10 and some stronger K's after being called on the turn. 99-QQ may check back, along with most A-highs. So, IMO, your range was mostly air and 2nd pair top kicker is way too strong to fold. If it was me, I'd call knowing I had to be right only 4 times in 10 to be profitable.

    I think a lot of this comes down to how the AI is programmed. Steve has been very clear that the bots are not playing based off GTO-based strategies. They are exploitative. If the bot had a read from previous experience with you, I can see the line it took but otherwise I just can't. Is it possible a human player would take the same weak-passive line? Sure. Most average players over-fold to triple barrels without a very strong hand. Only better players will have a somewhat balanced calling range, especially on the river.

  • MAM4M
    edited August 2018

    I have noticed that the bots love to float you on the flop of you're heads up and the bot has position. So I've basically taken to second barreling almost 100% of the time on the turn, unless the board is coming really weird, when in that situation if I have almost anything at all in terms of presumptive outs.

    But, in this case, it is the float on the turn that I can't explain. If the bot were thinking ahead to what it is going to do on the river, its play implies that it is only going to call a bet if an ace hits (in which case, as I raised preflop, it might be at best chopping with A-A-7-7-K). If so, is it going to bluff anything if I check the river? Seems unlikely given that it folded when as good a card as an 8 hit.

    I just can't figure out where it was going with the call on the turn, especially when the K was a perfectly reasonable card to hit my hand if I'd been C-betting the flop with A-K, K-Q, K-J, K-10, K-9, or maybe even some lesser K-x suited.

    If I'm playing in the bot's place and I float the bet on the flop, I'm probably folding 100% of the time to the second barrel on the turn after seeing my opponent raise-bet-bet so far. Holding ace high at that point I might well have no outs and no chance of getting my opponent in the SB to fold on the river. So I could easily be playing an expensive street in a (somewhat) bloated pot with absolutely nowhere to go.

  • cupcake

    Hey MAM,

    I guess I also am wondering how adaptive these Bot's are. (Warlock1 comment) Due to my playing low level Ring games I am getting used to the Bots chasing ridiculous draw's. At my level they dont even give up on the 4th barrell! At first I was firing off two then folding, then three and now four at times. I have posted a second hand where I got massacred but in the long run I am still up in Profit. I learnt alot alot from reading your Post, thank you. CC

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