As of November 2021, the APT Forum is closed to new posts. Like with many online forums, usage has decreased in recent years. All previous posts are still available.

I need a count

Vandelay75
Vandelay75

Playing in a small daily Saturday night tournament last night, we are down to 6 players left of the 34 that started. One Short stacked player is being painfully slow acting on every hand, taking 30 sec. to a min. even to decide to enter a pot or fold, and much longer if he was involved on later streets.
Still 6 players, the big stack shoves all in under the gun, short stack, 8000 chips, is next to act, tanks for at least 2 min. then asks the dealer to count big stacks chips. Dealer responds "he's got you covered". Again short stack asks the dealer for a count, dealer reluctantly counts out big stacks chips, "57,000."
More tanking, I can't take it anymore and I ask short stack to please stop wasting our time. the rest of the table is in agreement. finally shorty calls, turns over 33, biggy turns over AJ. A on the flop, shortys out.
am I missing some kind a deep strategy in needing a count of someone who clearly has you out chipped? or is this guy just being a d-bag?

Comments

  • nytider
    nytider

    I don't get it either. I can't think of any useful information to be gained from an exact count that would be valuable enough to the decision to justify the time taken.

  • synthesists
    synthesist

    Lotta d-bags out there! People are mysterious.......

    Syn

  • pgearan
    pgearan
    edited August 2017

    Yeah, I'll forgive any one off odd delay even if I don't agree with it. So if this was a player who had been behaving perfectly fine all tournament and used this count to buy some time to think or actually determine something about why an exact stack of this size would do this move, fine (although the request for a count should not be after 2 minutes of tanking). But this was a pattern of needless slow play which is just not acceptable in a tournament.

    But these people who take forever to fold pre-flop because they read that you should take the same amount of time for every action (which, no if it is an autofold you do not have to take any time), do bug me. Because it is hard to call them on that because each instance is not so outrageously long.

    You are right to be frustrated because this guy is either completely clueless or trying to irritate people. However, I would have called clock when the post-count tanking started and let the dealer and floor handle it. Getting into it directly with other players is just a distraction in focusing on your frame of mind and the next hand once he was fortunately gone. You have a right to use the "clock" option particularly in this circumstance and never even have to say a word to the guy,.

  • nytider
    nytider

    One thing I don't like about the pre-flop tanking is that it can really screw up the players who are in the hand. For example, if a player in early position tanks before folding their hand, am I supposed to take any information from that? It probably makes sense to just ignore it, assuming there is nothing about the stack sizes or game situation that would make it a more difficult decision than normal. But what if I am on the button with pocket threes, and the thought occurs to me that the tanker may have folded a low to medium pair, making it less likely that I am against a pair that would have me dominated out of the gate? Or maybe it occurs to me that he could have tanked over playing an ace-rag hand, and now I have one less ace to draw to? Then there are all sorts of situations after the flop where you'd really like to know what was taking so long for the guy to fold pre-flop. At that point, you assume he had something that was at least marginally playable, as opposed to the 7-2 offsuit you can safely put most pre-flop folders on.

    I think it is the gentlemanly thing to do, when you are playing live poker, to act reasonably in your own interests, without doing anything that unnecessarily makes it more difficult for players who are contesting pots that you are not involved with.

  • Vandelay75
    Vandelay75

    @pgearan said:

    You are right to be frustrated because this guy is either completely clueless or trying to irritate people. However, I would have called clock when the post-count tanking started and let the dealer and floor handle it. Getting into it directly with other players is just a distraction in focusing on your frame of mind and the next hand once he was fortunately gone. You have a right to use the "clock" option particularly in this circumstance and never even have to say a word to the guy,.<

    Yes calling clock would have been a better option. Although from the times I've seen the clock called, people seem to take that personally as well.

  • PFAL
    PFAL

    "calling the clock would have been better option" I agree Van...

    In Daytona...A Dealer told me that after one minute he would call the Floor Supervisor (FS) another 30sec or more can take place before the D is explaining the situation, another 10sec, before the FS announces to the tanking player he is on a 60 sec clock. As the clock reaches 50 sec the FS begins and 10 sec countdown and the tanker has to declare or he will be checked or folded.

    Now with the Orange City poker room open (a subsidiary of Daytona) and upgraded table electronics allows the D to initiate the clock at their discretion by pushing a button on the table starting a 60 sec clock, of course announcing to the player and table he has done so and the D starts the 10 sec count down after 50 sec. The results are the same in each case.

    Daytona: time to make a decision about 2 min 40 sec
    Orange City: time to make a decision about 1.5 min..Dealer dependent..

    Understanding both situations allows me to adjust my thinking and to also understand that each player will be judged by the same rules...

    I didn't answer Van's strategy question and there may not be an answer. It is important for me to know the rules for tanking and I can reduce my frustration with the Tanker because I know how long I have to wait and tank myself...

    I plan to ask the tanking rules for each new poker room I attend, cash or tourney..

  • pgearan
    pgearan

    @Vandelay75 said:

    @pgearan said:

    You are right to be frustrated because this guy is either completely clueless or trying to irritate people. However, I would have called clock when the post-count tanking started and let the dealer and floor handle it. Getting into it directly with other players is just a distraction in focusing on your frame of mind and the next hand once he was fortunately gone. You have a right to use the "clock" option particularly in this circumstance and never even have to say a word to the guy,.<

    Yes calling clock would have been a better option. Although from the times I've seen the clock called, people seem to take that personally as well.

    Absolutely, many players will but it gets you one step removed from direct conflict. At least in your situation basically the whole table supports your actions except this guy (even the direct confrontation) so you don't have a lot of risk.

    Even calling clock should be rare, a last resort. I think I have done it once; in fact, it was to a guy who was playing that day and was usually a floor at the card room I play at. Good guy, and I had no malice, it was just late in a tournament with 20 minute blinds and he had tanked for several minutes and I felt it was reasonable to push him along. He took it fine and I got to joke that calling time on an employee there was likely not my smartest move.

    Usually someone even twitchier than me calls clock before I get a chance!

Sign In to comment.