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Turn call OK?


I think I get around 28% here to be able to call. I have some extra outs on top of the FD, therefore I decide because of that to call this bet. Although it is an even money call and maybe I should skip those calls.

Best Answer

  • highfive
    Answer ✓
    Yes mostly because this board normally doesn't touch 3bettors range and you are a slight favorite against an over pair. This is a great hand hero has. I might checkraise with this board. With the intention to jam the turn. Admittedly the Q is not a good card to jam.
    Who says he has a pair? Is his 3bet range only premium pairs? On the HUD what is his 3bet frequency? If he is/was a nit 3bettor( something like 2%) this was a fold to his 3bet.
    If he was a laggy type 3bettor, i might 4 bet to identify villain's hand and intentions. Of course fold to a shove.
    Many ways to play this hand other than check/call.
    P.S. Why isn't it .....junglefeever? )


  • junglefeveerj

    [b]888 Poker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players[/b]
    [i][url=]Hand converted by PokerTracker 4[/url][/i]

    BTN: 175.8 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 25.51, 3Bet Preflop: 16.13, Hands: 100)
    SB: 151.2 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 13.99, 3Bet Preflop: 3.64, Hands: 146)
    BB: 112.4 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
    [b]Hero (UTG): 109.2 BB[/b]
    CO: 88.8 BB (VPIP: 47.37, PFR: 42.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

    SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

    [b]Pre Flop:[/b] [i](pot: 1.4 BB)[/i] [b]Hero[/b] has 8:heart: 6:heart:

    [color=red][b]Hero[/b] raises to 3 BB[/color], [i]fold[/i], BTN calls 3 BB, [i]fold[/i], [i]fold[/i]

    [b]Flop:[/b] [i](7.4 BB, 2 players)[/i] 4:spade: 5:heart: 9:heart:
    [color=red][b]Hero[/b] bets 5.8 BB[/color], [color=red]BTN raises to 15.2 BB[/color], [b]Hero[/b] calls 9.4 BB

    [b]Turn:[/b] [i](37.8 BB, 2 players)[/i] Q:diamond:
    [b]Hero[/b] checks, [color=red]BTN bets 25.2 BB[/color], [b]Hero[/b] calls 25.2 BB

    [b]River:[/b] [i](88.2 BB, 2 players)[/i] 6:spade:
    [b]Hero[/b] checks, [color=red]BTN bets 58.8 BB[/color], [i]fold[/i]

    BTN wins 83.8 BB

  • junglefeveerj
    edited July 2018

    I complete screwed up the way my hand should be posted, for that my apologize.

  • junglefeveerj
    edited July 2018

    'If he was a laggy type 3 bettor, i might 4 bet to identify villain's hand and intentions. Of course fold to a shove' What are laggy 3 bet stats look like?
    '3bet frequency? If he is/was a nit 3 bettor( something like 2%) this was a fold to his 3bet' What does a 3bet frequency look like, for a call to be justified?

    I had no stats on him at all this time, therefore I called the turn. If I would have had only a draw I would not call this bet on turn. Why isn't it j
    junglefeever? Well I guess a type mistake. Thanks for answering this hand

  • highfive
    I knew I left that as an open question after I posted. Good question.
    6% is not an out of line 3bet %. 5-9% range is ok meaning still not laggy. Below 4% 3 bet % I'd do alot of folding to especially OOP as that is a value heavy range.
    If I'm reading your PT stats correctly, it says button 3bet 16.1! Way out of line if true. Doug Polk suggests about 20% in heads up play. Vpip of 28 with PFR of 25 means villain comes in for a raise when he enters the pot. Profile of villain is TAG with laggy 3 bet%.
    Counterstrategy: 4bet is clearly called for here. He is light quite often when 3 betting. You have to fight back. At this level , villain will likely be surprised by a 4 bet. Villain is probably accustomed to 3betting with impunity. Stacks are large enough to play a 4bet pot.
    With this flop, I consider overbet with my cbet. Put the pressure on him instead of him putting on the pressure.
    Generally reduce light opens when he has position on you.
    Eventually he'll learn you aren't the one to attack.
  • pk506p

    Interesting hand. At first glance I thought we should at least consider running into a bigger flush.

    But due to V's high 3bet, I think we can discount the AXhh. Maybe he calls pre with the lower end broadway hearts. I think this range on the turn makes sense (?):

    55-44,Q9s,76s,54s,KhTh,QhTh,JhTh,4h3h... vs this range you are 34%

    If you add in Ah7h, Ah4h,Ah3h,Ah2h, you are still 31%. Agree that a fold could be good just as well.

    100 hands, small sample, maybe V is wider? He is surely active. Have you noticed him bluffing or is he just running well?

    @highfive ... the 16% 3-bet hud-stat is preflop only. So not sure we should rely on that stat for postflop play. I do agree with you that hero should strongly consider 3 betting villain on this flop.

  • highfive
    Oh sh*t. That changes alot.
    The raise came on the flop? I'm never folding here. I struggle with suggesting my actions because not too many people are comfortable with them. I likely jam over the raise. Gutshot straight flush draw? I'm probably willing to go with it. Vs call range does have 4s & 5s in it but many non pairs too. Is he raising a flush draw? If so the six may be good.
    I noticed hero is a 47/42 with 0% 3bet. I'd forget this hand and immediately correct those preflop ranges. Some top pros say preflop is the most important decision @junglefeveer
    Yes @pk506 sample size always comes up. It's on the controversial side but i discount sample size mostly. Why? Because playing style is not a constant. Is villain going to play the same over 10, 20, or 50k hands? Hardly believable.
    For myself I make in-game adjustments. So the me you are playing now may not exist an hour or two from now. Post session reviews are designed specifically to eliminate mistakes. So if villain exploits me in some way, next time we sit hopefully that exploit is gone.
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