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Was this a mistake to call the flop raise?

edited May 2018 in Specific Hand Questions

The Hand Analyzer tagged this hand as a "questionable call on the flop". I was getting better than 2-1 pot odds on calling his raise (and maybe greater implied odds), and I was drawing to the nut flush (35% chance). Should I have re-raised?


  • 1warlock
    edited May 2018

    IMHO, it was a mistake to call pre-flop. A6s is a crud hand, especially OOP facing a good sized raise from a tight-passive player, as Rebecca is described. You really only have 1 thing going for you and that is a flush draw. You will not flop a thing more often than not, you are out of position and if you by any chance flop an A, it is likely you are dominated. My advice is toss this hand and move on.

    As played, I am more inclined to check the flop rather than fire the nut flush draw. Many disagree with me but there is pretty solid data out there that checking here is the highest EV play. By betting, you open the door to being blown off your equity as Tyrese attempted to do. When Tyrese check-raised (to virtually all-in), you do not have the odds to call. He has $700 left behind so there are no implied odds here - its fold or shove. Its a marginal spot here to shove because you are drawing to a maximum 35% draw. If he has a club, your odds as less. If he has a set, your odds are less because your flush would be forfeit to a FH or quads. Checking also disguises your hand and can induce a bet into your nutted hand from the other players. You can start turning your hand into a semi-bluff/bluff on the turn or river if need be but too soon to do it on the flop because of exactly the situation you faced here.

    I know these suited A's look tempting but they are only playable in certain situations. A6-9 in particular (suited or not) are just trash hands and should be mucked most of the time preflop.

  • nuttybuddyn

    Appreciate and agree with your review.

    I missed the fact that Rebecca was tight-passive. I'm just getting started on the site. I also understood that my flop bet was borderline, but it was intended to be a semi-bluff, blocking, informational bet (maybe even enabling a free card). I didn't expect to see a raise of that magnitude....

    Your analysis is solid. Thanks.

  • 1warlock
    edited May 2018

    No worries @nuttybuddy - sometimes the descriptions are accurate and other times not so much. I don't actually hate the flop bet, its just not my favorite play. You will deny equity to a ton of hands and that's a great thing. The problem is when you get shoved over like happened here. If you look at his stack size, flat calling your flop bet would have left him with less than 2x pot behind. With an SPR that low, its almost impossible to get away from top pair on the flop. He easily could have just shipped it here. The way he played the hand was odd but these bots don't play perfect poker though so get used to that. They replicate low-limit live games from what I understand.

    Anyway, welcome to the site and I hope you enjoy it and keep posting hands here. I think we all get better at this game when we discuss hands and situations among ourselves. Playing is great and training vs bots is great but its the human to human analysis that I think is most beneficial.

  • highfive

    Agree with @1warlock . The original call was incorrect. Fold pre. Take note on player who called a 3bet OOP with JTo. I'd be looking to 3bet, iso her in future. Description says she is "skilled". It is not looking that way to me. She could be exploited with that 3bet call range. Also in future I would not lead into a 3bettor who is likely cbetting this flop. As played she was given the opportunity to get away and she did. Her cbet was at least 1/2 pot. So likely missed an addition to the pot. Check to the raiser in 3bet pots is a good idea mostly whatever your hand strength. @nuttybuddy

  • dhirigoyd

    The preflop odds are not so bad so your call, although questionable, isn't terrible. Your flop bet is a little weak but I'm not sure that increasing it would have deterred your opponent from making his move. Calling his raise, however, doesn't make much sense. Even if you think that you could put him all in if a club comes, you still don't have the right odds. In my opinion that's probably the biggest mistake. So tempting to chase that flush though, isn't it?

  • awiggi3a

    I think the biggest mistake was limping in. Raise it up to narrow the field and gain information. You dont want to limp call in early position

    I think the next biggest mistake was donk leading with your flush draw, ESPECIALLY on a paired board. I would have have checked to the raiser which is routine. A king is well within his range so i would had expected him to cbet. After the cbet he might have gotten a call or 2 and then you could have made a flat call at a great price.

    OR you could have 3 bet AFTER the initial raiser put in a raise and induced a squeeze, in conjuction with the paired board being scary to the preflop raiser who would probably have top pair or a prerium pocket

    OR, with any of the plays listed above, the money maker for me would have been checking the turn hoping to get a free card and check raising if someone makes a bet.

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