Combat Trainer -- NEW SCENARIO SUGGESTIONS

SteveBlay
SteveBlay

Our new COMBAT TRAINER will be launched on April 1st, 2018.

Once launched, this thread will be used for suggestions of new scenarios we should add.

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Comments

  • apt_gs
    apt_gs
    Power Poster

    What is it?

  • SteveBlay
    SteveBlay
    Admin edited March 2018

  • apt_gs
    apt_gs
    Power Poster

    Thanks. Look forward to seeing it in action.

  • blbhuhblb
    blbhuhblb
    Veteran

    KQ suited in the small blind with a button straddle...

  • pgearan
    pgearan
    Admin

    @blbhuhblb said:
    KQ suited in the small blind with a button straddle...

    Thanks for our first suggestion! I hope everyone checks out the Combat Trainer, tries it out, and drops some suggestions for additional scenarios. We want to evolve the Combat Trainer with the needs of our members at the forefront.

  • russ1409
    russ1409
    New Poster

    Any chance you can randomize the villains so we aren't always playing against the same style?

  • radamesbispo
    radamesbispo
    New Poster

    The combat training is amazing, i think to me this tool is the best training here, since i see the video I liked so much of the idea behind of it..... but I also think somes details can be different to this tool to be better according my point of view.

    1- First one, the opponent have to change, because we never will play against same person or stile, so changing the opponent every time the hand end, the final results will be more interesting.

    2 - I am going to suggest one combat trainer : when we are on SB and we open with a hand like AK/ AQ / AJ or AT do not mater but have to be same suited, so the BB CALL. the flop come and we miss the board, but the board have to be Low cards like (2 until max 7 ) hero check opponent check behind, we C-bet Semi-bluff the turn and opponent Raise us, so at this point the hero have flush Draw. so what best option on turn, call the turn raise with flush draw and over cards or just fold ?

  • 1warlock
    1warlock
    Power Poster

    This looks like its going to be a great tool. Just played around a little with the pocket J's one and as a 1st impression (because I love this hand). I think I have to agree with @radamesbispo - playing vs the same opponent from the same spot is kind of limiting. In the few hands I played, the players behind me cleared out of the way whether I flatted or 3-bet. I'd like to see us face off against different players opening and also have some of the players behind take actions other than fold (they may but I didn't see it yet).

    As another suggestion - what about strong hands in the blinds when facing a string of limps or of an early open and lots of flat-calls? You have to make really large raises to squeeze and if you wind up OOP vs multiple players in a huge pot, your stack is at risk quickly. Where do you squeeze and where do you flat and keep the pot manageable? Of all the things I face in poker, the pre-flop loose passives are my least favorite and I'd love to learn how to crush them.

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin

    We've heard the "different opponents" comment a bunch of times now through both email and posts here. Yeah, I get it and see why that would be important. We're looking into it. There are some significant complexities with that because of the nature of these (would ANY opponent have played it the way it was played to you or is this one specific type of opponent that gets you to this situation? Does it make sense to fit a square peg into a round hole - aggressive vs passive opponent?) and the way these had to be programmed. But we are looking into doing this at least for some of the scenarios.

    What I think we are going to do is collect suggestions and make a series of changes for version 2.0. Not long-term, but short-term. We're going to move pretty quickly on this. We already have a number of excellent suggestions and we're only one day into this!

  • highfive
    highfive
    Power Poster

    I recommend going to cash games. Setting it up to Deal JJ from all positions or just one position. Maybe play 20 hands at different levels which will change opponents and theoretically their reactions. I just did this with QJs. Good training. 1warlock radamesbispo

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin

    @highfive said:
    I recommend going to cash games. Setting it up to Deal JJ from all positions or just one position. Maybe play 20 hands at different levels which will change opponents and theoretically their reactions. I just did this with QJs. Good training. 1warlock radamesbispo

    I agree @highfive . Setting up specific hands to be dealt pre-flop using the game options is a great way to practice specific hands in a variety of situations. For anyone who has never done this, just start a cash game, click game options, and tell the trainer with hands to deal, which position, etc.

  • radamesbispo
    radamesbispo
    New Poster

    I dont know if here is the appropriated place to make a question about HUD statistics, so, as we know according the opponent we can change our strategy pos flop, also, what we see at the STATS if the vilain 3bet a lot or raise C-bet or go too much to show down and lose money there or it has a high or low VPIP or Low VPIP also PRF its help us to play a exploitative way. So i think play according our opponent is very good and profitable way. the advancedpokertraining is very good but how about some future update set stats to group of opponent, so, we will be able to play and learn more about exploit our opponent according their stats on hud...... So even here in the COMBAT Training is hard to know if our Strategy is more or Less EV, due we play agains one single Style and no Hud Stats, i think including hud stats will be the best way to Code implement to fix and improve the Combat Training option.....!!!!! and congratulation for very good training system...

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin

    @radamesbispo said:
    I dont know if here is the appropriated place to make a question about HUD statistics, so, as we know according the opponent we can change our strategy pos flop, also, what we see at the STATS if the vilain 3bet a lot or raise C-bet or go too much to show down and lose money there or it has a high or low VPIP or Low VPIP also PRF its help us to play a exploitative way. So i think play according our opponent is very good and profitable way. the advancedpokertraining is very good but how about some future update set stats to group of opponent, so, we will be able to play and learn more about exploit our opponent according their stats on hud...... So even here in the COMBAT Training is hard to know if our Strategy is more or Less EV, due we play agains one single Style and no Hud Stats, i think including hud stats will be the best way to Code implement to fix and improve the Combat Training option.....!!!!! and congratulation for very good training system...

    A little off topic, but I'm happy to answer it here.

    I think I've talked about this in another thread, but the bottom line is that we won't be doing a HUD for several reasons. I personally think they are highly counterproductive to poker improvement. When you sit down at a table, you have to figure out what type of player your opponent is. If you have all these stats right in front of you all the time, it takes away one of the most difficult part of playing table games and tournaments. We do allow you to see what "type" of player an opponent is by hovering over them and you can see a bunch of these specific stats on the opponents by clicking the "View Stats" button if you really want to, but having the stats sitting right in front of you all the time is just far too much information compared with what you typically would have (and it also would clutter up an already cluttered screen given all the options already in the game).

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin edited April 2018

    TWO QUESTIONS I'd like some feedback on from all of you putting your time into using this game:

    1.So we have been getting a lot of suggestions to randomize the opponents and I agree completely. What would that look like in your mind out of these two options?

    1) Opponents are fixed within a single session. They change each time you start out one of the combat scenarios (so if you started the JJ scenario twice, you would get a different line-up the second time, but within a session the opponents would stay the same).
    2) Opponents change every hand.

    Personally, I strongly prefer option 1. You need to figure out who your opponents are in the first place, and I don't see too much reason to change opponents every hand. Practice playing one group of opponents for a while, then change if you want. Just preemptively - adding a button for "shuffle opponents" would be very challenging from an interface perspective. One of the two above options is more feasible and we can implement it much more quickly.

    2.Stack sizes. We haven't actually gotten any questions about this, but it is on our minds since we have been playing this a lot also. Should stack sizes reset each hand to a set level (like we have it right now)? Or should they be randomized each time you start a new session of the game? Or possible should they be randomized on each hand? Same caveat as above with a "shuffle stacks" button - not really feasible.

    I think I lean towards randomizing the stacks each session because there might be some value to trying a hand with the same stacks and opponents repeatedly (just different opponent cards), but being able to change the setup by starting a new session.

    Looking forward to your thoughts (or any other suggestions on improvements to this feature). Like many of you, I'm finding this Combat Trainer to be incredibly useful and fun, and I'm pretty excited about all the possible situations we can program in here.

  • russ1409
    russ1409
    New Poster

    Inititially I was going to say option 2, but I guess we would lose the opponent each new hand right? So if I played "Joe" hand one, then on hand two "Joe" would be gone, and I wouldn't be able to figure out his play style over the course of the session. So in that light, yes, option 1.

    I came to realize reading this thread I wasn't using APT to its full ability. I got immersed in playing the leaderboards and got away from just playing certain hands from one or more positions. This, to me, makes my suggestion of randomizing opponents kind of moot. I can just do it through the cash settings.

    OTOH, randomizing stacks would be awesome. I don't take stack size and SPR into account enough when making my decisions. Randomized sizes each hand would force thinking players to check out the opponents' stack sizes every time. If the opponents could be programmed to make intelligent decisions with those factors in mind, it would be great training.

    @AllenBlay said:

    1.So we have been getting a lot of suggestions to randomize the opponents and I agree completely. What would that look like in your mind out of these two options?

    1) Opponents are fixed within a single session. They change each time you start out one of the combat scenarios (so if you started the JJ scenario twice, you would get a different line-up the second time, but within a session the opponents would stay the same).
    2) Opponents change every hand.

    2.Stack sizes. We haven't actually gotten any questions about this, but it is on our minds since we have been playing this a lot also. Should stack sizes reset each hand to a set level (like we have it right now)? Or should they be randomized each time you start a new session of the game? Or possible should they be randomized on each hand? Same caveat as above with a "shuffle stacks" button - not really feasible.

  • radamesbispo
    radamesbispo
    New Poster

    @AllenBlay said:
    TWO QUESTIONS I'd like some feedback on from all of you putting your time into using this game:

    1.So we have been getting a lot of suggestions to randomize the opponents and I agree completely. What would that look like in your mind out of these two options?

    1) Opponents are fixed within a single session. They change each time you start out one of the combat scenarios (so if you started the JJ scenario twice, you would get a different line-up the second time, but within a session the opponents would stay the same).
    2) Opponents change every hand.

    Personally, I strongly prefer option 1. You need to figure out who your opponents are in the first place, and I don't see too much reason to change opponents every hand. Practice playing one group of opponents for a while, then change if you want. Just preemptively - adding a button for "shuffle opponents" would be very challenging from an interface perspective. One of the two above options is more feasible and we can implement it much more quickly.

    2.Stack sizes. We haven't actually gotten any questions about this, but it is on our minds since we have been playing this a lot also. Should stack sizes reset each hand to a set level (like we have it right now)? Or should they be randomized each time you start a new session of the game? Or possible should they be randomized on each hand? Same caveat as above with a "shuffle stacks" button - not really feasible.

    I think I lean towards randomizing the stacks each session because there might be some value to trying a hand with the same stacks and opponents repeatedly (just different opponent cards), but being able to change the setup by starting a new session.

    Looking forward to your thoughts (or any other suggestions on improvements to this feature). Like many of you, I'm finding this Combat Trainer to be incredibly useful and fun, and I'm pretty excited about all the possible situations we can program in here.

    Nice your question about stack size, I dont mentioned before in my topic, but I agree with you its is a important details to check before take some action, so , answer with my point of view about random opponent and stack size, I think and agree with you the opponent can change at every session but the stack sizes could change every hand.....

  • 1warlock
    1warlock
    Power Poster

    @AllenBlay - interesting ideas you are toying with. If I had to pick between randomizing opponents or randomizing stack sizes, I think I would go with opponents. My instincts tell me that moving from macro to micro would be more practical/efficient in terms of training. IMO, learning to play the same hand vs different opponents would be a logical 1st step. Then, once someone became comfortable doing this with standard stacks, he could introduce another variable and start experimenting with effective stack sizes.

    However you wind up going about developing it, I think this addition to the site's training regiment is extremely beneficial.

  • mrgreenm
    mrgreen
    Skimmer

    @AllenBlay said:
    TWO QUESTIONS I'd like some feedback on from all of you putting your time into using this game:

    1.So we have been getting a lot of suggestions to randomize the opponents and I agree completely. What would that look like in your mind out of these two options?

    1) Opponents are fixed within a single session. They change each time you start out one of the combat scenarios (so if you started the JJ scenario twice, you would get a different line-up the second time, but within a session the opponents would stay the same).
    2) Opponents change every hand.

    Personally, I strongly prefer option 1. You need to figure out who your opponents are in the first place, and I don't see too much reason to change opponents every hand. Practice playing one group of opponents for a while, then change if you want. Just preemptively - adding a button for "shuffle opponents" would be very challenging from an interface perspective. One of the two above options is more feasible and we can implement it much more quickly.

    2.Stack sizes. We haven't actually gotten any questions about this, but it is on our minds since we have been playing this a lot also. Should stack sizes reset each hand to a set level (like we have it right now)? Or should they be randomized each time you start a new session of the game? Or possible should they be randomized on each hand? Same caveat as above with a "shuffle stacks" button - not really feasible.

    I think I lean towards randomizing the stacks each session because there might be some value to trying a hand with the same stacks and opponents repeatedly (just different opponent cards), but being able to change the setup by starting a new session.

    Looking forward to your thoughts (or any other suggestions on improvements to this feature). Like many of you, I'm finding this Combat Trainer to be incredibly useful and fun, and I'm pretty excited about all the possible situations we can program in here.

    First of all, I want to thank the developers of this website for their work and effort. The combat trainer is an amazing tool and I'm enjoying it a lot!
    It's also great that you are involving us ,the members, in the process.

    To your question: .
    I would prefer, that opponents are fixed within a single session and that they change each time you start a new combat scenario .

    I also think, that stack sizes-should be randomized on each hand.

    Keep on the good work!

  • apt_gs
    apt_gs
    Power Poster

    I suggest Option 1 for the oppent line because it allows to figure out the oppenent's style and experiment with different approaches to dealing with that style.

    I prefer a constant stack size per session with a random stack size at the start of the new session.

  • 1warlock
    1warlock
    Power Poster edited April 2018

    This one may be a little hard to program but I think would be really helpful. 3-Betting by position vs initial raiser. I think this would be extremely good practice for evaluating ranges and hand selection by position in raised pots. After viewing and reading the comments on Hand Review #1, this thought immediately came to mind. Where would A10s be a call vs a 3-bet? What hands would you 3-bet on the button with an open from the CO? Which are 3-bet/folds to 4-bets and which are calls vs the 4-bet? Which are 5-bet jams?

    So many elements of the game come together when working on 3-bet ranges. Hand selection by position, estimating opponents' ranges, aggression/ having the betting lead, odds being given to those left to act, hands that play better multi-way vs HU, range balancing ...

    Learning controlled aggression will yield positive results, IMO. I see many players defaulting to calling in too many spots where folding or raising are both preferable options. Calling is comfortable and I get that. People generally don't like to be confrontational and they hate being wrong and made to look foolish. To become a good player though, stepping out of the comfort zones is essential. After a time, someone who practices this will be comfortable doing it. You know who won't be comfortable? Your opponents :)

  • dodid
    dodi
    Skimmer edited April 2018

    About opponent rotation- I agree that opponents should only rotate when a new session is started.
    That way experience with different player styles is possible but the benefits of repetitive practice and prolonged learning with one type of opponent isn’t lost.
    It’s pretty impressive that APT developers have managed to mimic player styles so convincingly. Some of them put me right on tilt and others I treat rather badly, kind of scary my new friends are bots

  • SteveBlay
    SteveBlay
    Admin

    @dodi said:
    kind of scary my new friends are bots

    better get used to it!

    Thank you all for the great suggestions, we are working on a new version of the Combat Trainer (and some new scenarios) and should have that soon.

  • rolystitr
    rolystit
    Skimmer

    pocket 9s

  • captaintripsc
    captaintrips
    Skimmer edited April 2018

    I think a lot of tables have mostly good players and a few bad ones so I would try to recreate that in the cash games. A suggestion would be AK but against better players to learn to get better at betting with confidence after missing post-flop or occasionally just give up. Against players as loose as those in the simulation a c-bet just doesn't make sense because they'll call you down with like bottom pair. I would also randomize the players that you're betting against generally because the way to optimally play against one of these bots isn't the way to optimally play against everyone and that should be reflected in the exercise. I find value in the simulation in learning to keep cool and be familiar with unusual situations at the table like having a monster or playing big pots and not having my only real experience with big pots be for real money. I like the QJs exercise because it kind of helps learn to do automatic-looking 3-bets in basically semi-bluff situations.

  • radamesbispo
    radamesbispo
    New Poster edited June 2018

    ok lets to new suggestion : Hero have hands like AK , AQ , AJ or AT that are good hands but not even a pair...... so the hero are in BB and all or most of previous players limp, so the hero make a ISO and two or 3 call. When flop came it is monotone with 3 cards of same suit. so what to do ? this situation is high probable some vilain have the flush or are in flush draw. so what to do ? this situation make me crazy when play in some room where have a lot of agro fish that never fold

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin

    Guys, thanks for continuing to make suggestions. Even if I dont directly respond, I'm seeing them and we add them to our list for discussion. Our goal is to continue building up a portfolio of different concepts that cause players issues. We just launched 5 more scenarios and we will have more coming.

  • krista
    krista
    Power Poster edited June 2018

    Hi... love the combat trainer!!!! trouble i have is pre-flop .. i open with a playable hand bet 3x... and someone behind me raises that... what I do? yikes? is a puzzle for me.. and what means it says I a "skimmer" is that a negative bad thing?

  • AllenBlay
    AllenBlay
    Admin

    Thank you for the suggestion - we'll keep that scenario in mind.

    "skimmer" is just the default term used by the forum software for people new to the forum. I have no idea what it means, but I've often wondered the same thing. It does not mean anything negative, just a default term for a new person on the forum.

    Thank you for joining us here :)

    Allen

  • krista
    krista
    Power Poster

    ty .. hugs

  • AceSleeves
    AceSleeves
    New Poster

    Folded to us in the SB and only going against BB with all different hands. Also vice versa where we are in BB only against SB.

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