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recommended to call pre flop

edited January 2018 in Specific Hand Questions

The advice given was to call pre flop. Then when looking at the hand analyzer it "slammed" me for a questionable call pre-flop. Most of my hits are labelled questionable call pre flop, and I'd say most are when I'd be advised to call. Does this happen to you too?


  • AllenBlay

    I would recommend reading this thread that talks about the advice because it gives a perspective about where the advice comes from, how it should be used, etc..

    There are many more discussions like it in the APT questions part of the forum. The basic idea is that there are different kinds of advisors and sometimes when you are trying to play a specific style (for example aggressive), you will make plays that might seem questionable in isolation and thus they get labeled as such so that you can think about them later.


  • dhirigoyd

    I always struggle with that too. With the ability to step back from the action and reflect on this a little more (which you don't really have the luxury of doing when you're in it) I would think that although the pre-flops pot odds for you to call are good enough the effective stack is not. Considering that you have less than 1% chance to flop a flush or a straight and just over 10% to flop a draw, you need the effective stack to be a certain times the pre-flop bet to call. When holding pocket pairs and looking to set mine some people advocate that your opponents' effective stack should be at least 20 times the pre-flop bet. For a draw I would imagine that it's at least as much. So in this case the effective stack is only $114 which is not even 10X the $12 bet. Even if you add the $53 pot to this (excluding your own extra $10 ) you're looking at an "effective stack + pot" of $167, which is still only 14X the bet. I don't know if any such provision is built into the software but maybe that's the reason your call is being questioned. You might want to check this article for a more detailed approach to this question.
    Anyway, just a thought

  • highfive

    Why not 3bet? QJs is ahead of limping ranges. Then shove over villan Joe's lead. If button 4bets still then fold at this stack depth.
    Got to get out of cally cally mode. Calling encourages others to come along thereby reducing your equity.
    Call along is playing the lucky flop game not poker.

    I guess APT is going with advice button doesn't mean good advice. CYA all the way. Imagine a lawyer giving advice and then saying " oh that's what I would have done. The decision was yours." This is a training site. People want to improve. People want good advice not " pretty ok" advice.
    I don't use the button hardly except for comedic relief. I can predict what it will say. Whatever is weak-tightest move, that's the likely advice.
    Catdozer the site teaches 1 style of poker, tight. That was winning on many levels in '08. Now its a good way to start.
    Learn those starting hand ranges. 169 starting hands and you should know what you 'll do with them before arriving at the table. Adjust according to action in front. Understand what action could happen behind.
    Best of luck.

  • 1warlock
    edited March 2018

    I'm going to agree with @highfive pre-flop here and suggest opening to ~5.5BB over the 2 limpers from EP. Give yourself a chance to take to pot down right here or steal position with a hand that is easy to play post-flop. In this spot you are going to get 4-bet and you are just done but such is life.

    Since you made the call and decided to see a flop, you have to realize what type of hand you have. In a raised multiway pot, you are absolutely not playing this for top pair hands. Your top pairs are almost always dominated here so you are looking for combo draws. You need top pair with draws or strong draws to proceed. That is why hands like these can be big trouble. They look pretty and play well but you can lose a lot of money if you overvalue them for pairs. Even the 2 pair hands get tricky because much of the time your 2 pairs makes someone else's straight draw. You need to be ever mindful of cards somewhat connected on the board when you hold 2 pair with hands like this.

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