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Call the turn?
All the advisors tell me to call the 3 bet on the turn but for me it´s fold or all in...Your thougts?
It's the flop not the turn. For me it's a clear fold. The opponent is a tight passive and a pair of jacks is not enough for his actions.
Yes sorry, the decision it´s on the flop...
To me there is only two options, fold or all in if you believe you are ahead...
But calling it´s the last thing to do right?
Calling the flop raise if your opponent had a deeper stack makes some sense because I'm not sure your hand is strong enough for a 3-bet into a big stack, but perhaps too strong to let go. But because when your opponent raises to $90 that leaves on $85 behind for him I agree that you either fold or shove because I think you are both committed to this hand if you flatted the $90 especially when an over does not hit the turn.
So the question is: is the $157 your are committing after your $28 have enough equity against his range to win the $230 (assuming he is calling and you have $0 fold equity which is a good assumption). You need to win 41% of the time to show a profit here. If we assume for the moment that the Villian's 3-bet pre-flop is basically all pairs except JJ and AKo and AKs (a fairly restricted range but given he is tight passive not unlikely and coud even be too wide) and he would have reraised on the flop with all those hands as well, then your equity on the flop when I put that into the APT odds calculator (https://www.advancedpokertraining.com/poker/winning-percentage-odds-calculator/) you have 60% equity certainly enough to shove like you did. Because the board is so dry, no flush draws and unlikely straight draws of 97 and J9, there are almost no drawing semi-bluffs here.
But the main question is are they really reraising with hands like AK and 22 and 33? Possible but you are currently well behind with only 2 outs to 6 pairs and ahead of 6 pairs (who in turn only have 2 outs) and of course AK has 6 outs on you. I think we have to assume value bets are far more likely than bluffs on the flop (as kaspal said because he is tight passive especially). If we eliminate 4 of 6 pairs you can beat leaving only 99 and 77 as bluffs and removing AKo off only leave AKs for the overs and some backdoor draws. Now if you put that restricted range in now your equity is down to 38%, below what you would need to shove profitably.
Not that you would do these calculations at the moment, but the overall idea is: it is very unlikely you can beat anything but a bluff here because I am not sure how even a 99 or 77 is reraising here for value. So then I think you estimate what percentage of time he's bluffing here, or semi-bluffing with 6 outs with something like AK, versus the number of overpairs or flopped sets he has and if it is clearly more than 40% you can shove if it is less you fold. I think the assumption is this hand is there are very few bluffs and, as kaspal, I'd likely fold.
Thank you very much for your comment pgearan . I totally agree with you both , that the better play is to fold. One thing i´m certain here , it´s a shove or fold situation, and never a call option. What bothers me this much is that all the advisores in the site, say that this play is a call on his 3 bet, and that i´m 100% shure that it´s wrong...
Just don´t understand how the site advice is call...I just don´t...
Thanks for the help guys...
I think in this case you are correct. The algorithms driving the advisors take a lot of things into account so sometimes the specific advice may lean on some factors more than others - here it seems like it might have been more driven by the "too good to fold/not good enough to shove" logic that I think held if you opponent had your stack depth as well, but not as shallow as he was after his raise. I think in doing these training sessions you want to decide what your action is first, which it looks like you did here because you shoved instead of calling, because that will be the true measure of how you are playing. The if you check the advice and it seems off base to you, hit the Brain button to see the logic behind the advice. Sometimes it will give you an insight you had not considered and sometimes, like potentially here with effective stack size, you may see something that the advisor logic is not accounting for.
If I may, why not 4-bet pre-flop especially OOP 6 handed? I've been playing short handed cash games for a fairly long time now and this situation vs a tight player (passive or aggressive) seems perfect for a 4-bet. If he was 3-betting you with a range as wide as pgearan stated, then you have a good chance of folding out a ton of that range. If he flats your 4-bet, then you can further reduce his range as he is likely capped at QQ for pairs. Should you see a flop, play becomes easier because his range is tiny. You have the lead and all the KK, AA and AK in your range and he has none. If he 5-bet shoves, you are likely way behind and can fold.
I used to hate JJ because it was such a difficult hand to play post-flop. Since I started taking a more aggressive line and being more active with it pre-flop, I've had much better results with it. I've had to make some really tight folds, which no one likes to do with such a premium hand, but I've increased my overall profit with it. Playing it this way OOP has also given me the ability to widen my ranges and include some 4-bet bluffs. In addition, I can get paid on my KK and AA combos because of the more robust range and people don't automatically fold to my 4-bets.
So much of poker is about making good decisions. Avoiding uncertain situations like the one in your hand is a big factor in doing so, at least for me. I would rather have invested another $34 pre-flop to know where I was than be OOP facing pretty much only hard decisions unless I flopped a set.
Tight passive player 3bets? Tornado sirens going off in my head. He's not doing this with 10s. Surprised he only had QQ.
4bet fold is to a raise is great.
If he calls, ship the flop. He might fold fearing AA, Kk.
Nit folding pre makes a player exploitable. (U mean he will fold jj to a 3bet?)
As played Check Call is better than leading. Trying to keep pot smaller because a TP player is barreling into us. Yikes!
I get stacked here.
Nice hand. Reload.