As of November 2021, the APT Forum is closed to new posts. Like with many online forums, usage has decreased in recent years. All previous posts are still available.

AI 4-bet on the draw


Hello everyone,,
KQo -- one of the classic "Trouble Hands" (Doyle, also cited in Harrington on Cash Games). KQo is not great multi-way OOP, but I'm not going to consider folding when I can see a free flop. So I was really playing "check/fold" more than "considering raising."

But check out the bot's 4-betting on the draw (flop).

Watch replay

I considered folding (flop), and I feel like I would have definitely folded if the opponent weren't a bot with known aggressive tendencies.

How would you rate her 4-betting the flop on the draw as a strategy? Does it look more like she's repping a set? Should I have gotten out of the way (not outcome-dependent, but strategy-wise)? Was it a non-optimal, overaggressive move on her part? Or is this something we should look at doing in cash games?

I suppose she's figuring it's a 12-outer (ace + FD, assuming I didn't hit my set), so if she can see turn and river, the pot odds are fine. But why not flat at least one of those bets and just peel off another card? If she'd flatted and waited for the turn and seen that Q hit, I think she would have saved 3/4 of her stack. And on the turn, she was down to 9 outs needing to call 20k into 75k with one card to go and no further betting. Or is she figuring 12 outs is worth it (i.e.: is she still thinking aces would be good)?

I suppose one could make a case for her shoving the 4-bet (flop) -- although you need 14 outs with 2 cards to come for a 50/50 all-in, but there is $600 in dead money (not much) and some fold equity (actually significant). I think she's got to either do that or be prepared to give up on the turn (especially with the Q falling). At least giving up on the turn would have saved her half her stack.

Or did I misplay it?

I definitely had her as being on the flush draw or maybe having hit a lower set (8's or 3's). I thought AA/AQ/KK were unlikely both because there was no preflop raise and because I had one of each of Q and K (limped/slowplayed aces were possible, I guess).


  • manm121m

    You're allowed to call a 3-bet, I think having an empty 4b bluffing range is fine given that when they are 3b bluffing us we likely have a hand that crushes them so turning it into a bluff seems kinda pointless. In fact it's probably not the end of the world to not have a 4b range at all from UTG and just flat AA too but I think generally may as well just get in KK+ against most people because they're just hudbots who will be getting in QQ+/AK no matter what and may as well get it in before scare cards come.

Sign In to comment.