AI 4-bet on the draw

charlisc
charlis

Hello everyone,,
KQo -- one of the classic "Trouble Hands" (Doyle, also cited in Harrington on Cash Games). KQo is not great multi-way OOP, but I'm not going to consider folding when I can see a free flop. So I was really playing "check/fold" more than "considering raising."

But check out the bot's 4-betting on the draw (flop).

Watch replay

I considered folding (flop), and I feel like I would have definitely folded if the opponent weren't a bot with known aggressive tendencies.

How would you rate her 4-betting the flop on the draw as a strategy? Does it look more like she's repping a set? Should I have gotten out of the way (not outcome-dependent, but strategy-wise)? Was it a non-optimal, overaggressive move on her part? Or is this something we should look at doing in cash games?

I suppose she's figuring it's a 12-outer (ace + FD, assuming I didn't hit my set), so if she can see turn and river, the pot odds are fine. But why not flat at least one of those bets and just peel off another card? If she'd flatted and waited for the turn and seen that Q hit, I think she would have saved 3/4 of her stack. And on the turn, she was down to 9 outs needing to call 20k into 75k with one card to go and no further betting. Or is she figuring 12 outs is worth it (i.e.: is she still thinking aces would be good)?

I suppose one could make a case for her shoving the 4-bet (flop) -- although you need 14 outs with 2 cards to come for a 50/50 all-in, but there is $600 in dead money (not much) and some fold equity (actually significant). I think she's got to either do that or be prepared to give up on the turn (especially with the Q falling). At least giving up on the turn would have saved her half her stack.

Or did I misplay it?

I definitely had her as being on the flush draw or maybe having hit a lower set (8's or 3's). I thought AA/AQ/KK were unlikely both because there was no preflop raise and because I had one of each of Q and K (limped/slowplayed aces were possible, I guess).

Comments

  • charlisc
    charlis
    Skimmer

    @charlis said:
    Hello everyone,,
    KQo -- one of the classic "Trouble Hands" (Doyle, also cited in Harrington on Cash Games). KQo is not great multi-way OOP, but I'm not going to consider folding when I can see a free flop. So I was really playing "check/fold" more than "considering raising."

    But check out the bot's 4-betting on the draw (flop).

    Watch replay
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    I considered folding (flop), and I feel like I would have definitely folded if the opponent weren't a bot with known aggressive tendencies.

    How would you rate her 4-betting the flop on the draw as a strategy? Does it look more like she's repping a set? Should I have gotten out of the way (not outcome-dependent, but strategy-wise)? Was it a non-optimal, overaggressive move on her part? Or is this something we should look at doing in cash games?

    I suppose she's figuring it's a 12-outer (ace + FD, assuming I didn't hit my set), so if she can see turn and river, the pot odds are fine. But why not flat at least one of those bets and just peel off another card? If she'd flatted and waited for the turn and seen that Q hit, I think she would have saved 3/4 of her stack. And on the turn, she was down to 9 outs needing to call 20k into 75k with one card to go and no further betting. Or is she figuring 12 outs is worth it (i.e.: is she still thinking aces would be good)?

    I suppose one could make a case for her shoving the 4-bet (flop) -- although you need 14 outs with 2 cards to come for a 50/50 all-in, but there is $600 in dead money (not much) and some fold equity (actually significant). I think she's got to either do that or be prepared to give up on the turn (especially with the Q falling). At least giving up on the turn would have saved her half her stack.

    Or did I misplay it?

    I definitely had her as being on the flush draw or maybe having hit a lower set (8's or 3's). I thought AA/AQ/KK were unlikely both because there was no preflop raise and because I had one of each of Q and K (limped/slowplayed aces were possible, I guess).

    Thank you my issue has been solved,...

  • jennysmithj
    jennysmith
    Skimmer

    My experiences so far in real casino play have been with a limited bankroll....$300 or less. I have just started playing HE in the past 5 months. I play 4-5 hours nitely on IRC, which has improved my game. I haven't been to the casino in about a month, and have improved quite a bit since my last visit. I also ordered HFAP and am sure that will tremendously improve my game. Another casino in town offers higher limits, I think I'll try that out once or twice before my big trip. Good advice, I'll keep thinking up ways to crack these games. routerilogin, routerlogin netgear I guess I just had some bad luck, and I know the money will come. I did win a nice pot of about $150(not bad for $2-5) with QQ after flopping a set, then 99 showed on turn/river. Beat out both AA and KK, and some guys 93o. I did turn a profit that session, but its just those losing ones I was frustrated from.

  • mywifeixtm
    mywifeixt
    Skimmer

    Unless you’ve got the nuts, 4-bet pots can be awfully intimidating. With stack-to-pot ratios so low, you’re usually just a bet or two away from getting all the money in the middle.

    If you’ve ever sweat under the stress of playing a 4-bet pot post-flop, then read on. Today we’ll discuss four points that will make navigating 4-bet pots much easier. As a bonus, points 1, 2 and 3 feature words of wisdom from Doug Polk and Ryan Fee.

    Let’s dig in!

    1. Well-structured pre-flop ranges will lead to post-flop success
      There’s no reason to discuss post-flop strategy for 4-bet pots if you haven’t thought carefully about your pre-flop strategy for 4-betting and calling 4-bets. Mywifiext

    Since 4-bet situations are unique and involve a variety of factors, it doesn’t make sense to prescribe ranges that you should never deviate from. Instead, let’s begin with general factors to consider so you can build well-structured ranges on the fly.

    Position
    Position is the most influential factor when considering a 4-bet range. What range you can profitably 4-bet or call a 4-bet with depends on your opponents’ ranges, which vary wildly by position. Routerlogin

    For example, if you are in the big blind facing a UTG open and a cutoff 3-bet, then your 4-betting range should be very tight. More specifically, it should probably consist of AA and around 6 bluff combos for balance.

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