Question: Are we here to help each other improve our game????
I've been pondering whether APT's daily tournament cabal should help each other improve their game.
My rationale is this. I've now played with some of these people 100s of times over the last 6 - 8 months. In many cases I've had time to scope out their strengths and weaknesses and test my observations. So I'm in a position to REALLY REALLY help some of them improve their game.
Recently in one of the weekly shootout tournaments I had an amazing run right at the beginning of the event. I eliminated 6 players in a row. I played each one one time, with ALL THE $$$ GOING IN. ThomPerry and North32Rowan observed this so you can verify what I'm saying here. I suppose I could dig back and post a video of the events I'm describing if someone requires it.
But I digress.......................
It was an incredible rush that both TP and N32R backed away from. They, pretty much refused to play a hand with me once it was down to the final 3. So there we were the last 3 men standing in a NOW lopsided event. I was up like 9000 (give or take) to their 1500+/-. At that point a bit of a discussion amongst the 3 of us ensued. I got a bit frustrated with their unwillingness to play and started showing my hand down each time I entered a pot. Eventually I offered to sit out and let the 2 of them play each other without me interfering. Thom eventually overcame North when, I think they both had decent pairs and the $$$ went in.
Thom and I then played out the event normally but I continued to show my hands each time I think. My thought process, based on my prior observations of their (TP and N32R) styles of play, was that while very good players their h2h game needed some work. I think my own h2h game, after much study and work against the h2h bots, is above average and I enjoy it, so I tried to help the 2 of them out. So I showed them both how I was playing and explained some of it. A bit arrogant on my part but useful (I hoped) to them both.
Now a week or so later I believe both, having absorbed that little lesson have improved dramatically in h2h situations. Thom creamed me in SB vs BB challenge a couple days after the shootout saying he GOT what I was saying and used it back on me. That made me smile..............
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. wahhh wah
So my question is this. Since we're not playing an APT tournament for $$$$ but for bragging rights, did I do the right thing coaching them a bit? Are we here to help each other improve ?
I, sincerely hope so. If any of you wanna dissect my many flaws for me feel free I will try to take it like a man and incorporate your suggestions to improve my game.
Warm regards,
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
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Comments
I don't play the tournaments much, but I absolutely support the idea of helping each other improve. That is one of the reasons I like the forum. And of course, everyone is encouraged to take my advice with a grain of salt. I will always try to be honest. But my knowledge and experience does not compare to some on here.
One thing I would say, however, is that there probably should be a balance with regard to coaching during play. One of the great advantages of this site is the ability to play against other serious learners. But to a certain extent, when you give each other too much information, you are taking away some of the benefit that is to be gained by digging for the information. It is like peeking when you are playing against the bots. I try not to do that too much, preferring to use my own hand reading skills to figure things out. Sometimes that is a process of trial and error. And there is a lot to be learned from that exercise.
Sounds like one hell of a tare. I'm glad to know they actually happen.
I'm game for helping each other out. Although APT live tournament play isn't really geared toward collaborative learning. I guess whoever is interested could play a tournament and then agree to share their hand record for the event and we can discuss on a chat forum???
Many years ago I used to play a a site called Poker School Online before they were bought by PokerStars. PSO had events where we played collaboratively with a moderator who could show hole cards after a round was played to discuss strengths and weaknesses of each player. That was very helpful.
LasV3gas
I think it would be most useful to help each other after the tourney is done.
As you probably know, at this point you can replay your tourneys after you finish, but the individual hands can't be viewed. I see that as something that would be useful, because then you could share them to the forum and discuss them after the tourneys. We'll talk about that and see if there is a way for that to be possible.
This question reminds me of what has been said about the elite pros who came up in the poker world through playing at the former Mayfair Club in NYC. From what I understand, at the Mayfair, there was vigorous poker competition. At times there were high stakes games. But after the evening of poker concluded, many of the regulars would retire to the bar to discuss the hands of the day. Through this they learned, mentored, and grew as poker players. It would be nice if the same thing happened here at APT. I believe that there is a lot to be learned and shared if poker is taken seriously here. But why take the poker serious if it is only for play chips one might ask. I have heard others ask this same question on Zynga, WSOP, and CLUBWPT. I play I lot of real money poker. I was a regular at Full Tilt prior to Black Friday, and continue to be a regular at the Foxwoods Poker Room in Connecticut. Yes, real money poker is frequently different than play money poker. I have at times been criticized when I have had a "Hellmuthesque" tirade at the play money tables. I have at times been told, "dude calm down, it is play money." My response is typically the following. "Yes, the money is fake, but the skill, or lack there of is real." What ever decisions one makes at any poker table, whether play money, micro stakes, or nose bleed tables, involves real skill. I believe that in all situations there is something to be learned, if the game is taken seriously, no matter the stakes. Hopefully those of us who take the game of poker seriously can share with each other. This forum seems like a great place to do so.
Regards,
Matt "Baldrick" Tedeschi
I completely agree with you Baldrick. There's nothing like the feedback you can get from your peers and the people who know your game best. It's the main reason we started this forum - get members sharing hands and talking strategy. It's a great way to improve. Thanks for posting.
Completely off-topic question - are you any relation to Susan Tedeschi from Tedeschi Trucks Band?
Allen I am asked that question frequently. To the best of my knowledge we are not related. A distant relative? Perhaps, but my family has no evidence to support this.
Baldrick. I feel the same about the game as you do:
"What ever decisions one makes at any poker table, whether play money, micro stakes, or nose bleed tables, involves real skill. I believe that in all situations there is something to be learned, if the game is taken seriously, no matter the stakes. Hopefully those of us who take the game of poker seriously can share with each other. This forum seems like a great place to do so."
I was a regular in the online cash games before black Friday, I really miss that and I don't think that they are coming back for a long time. Since I don't live in an area where there any legal card rooms, my only chance for live cash games is my rare (once a year trip to LV). The play money games are OK, but they have too many "jokers" who really didn't respect the game and, in the process of adjusting to them, I was developing bad habits that were hurting the quality of my game. Then this year when I was in LV I struggled and it took several days before I was anywhere near in shape and a long, long way from the pre-black-Friday days. Then through word-of-mouth and a magazine article I discovered APT.
Since I drafted this post I've had several enlightening , live chats with other members of the APT tournament cabal.
To say I enjoyed them is an understatement and I'd like to chat with more of you. Perhaps we could arrange to exchange phone numbers or set somethin up on skype to continue this.
Any takers?
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
Yep, sign me on.
LasV
For future reference my cell phone # is 708-203-7613. I'm in the central time zone (Chicago)
If someone would like to chat I'd prefer a text as a headsup with a suggestion of when then we can get things set up
Corey "synthesist" Gimbel
I would like to participate as I have a hard time finding anyone to discuss poker
Any chance you ever play at the Grand Victoria?
I live about 10 minutes away